[Broadcast on 19 November 2005]
It is well known that there is a big difference between the retirement pay and pensions of those who have retired from serving in a public institution (i.e., public school, hospital, etc) and those that have retired from a state enterprise. This is a longstanding, unresolved problem. In recent years, the financial pressures on the families of all retired workers have increased. One reason is that medical problems and costs rise dramatically as one grows older. In addition, many retirees have seen their sons and daughters lose their jobs in state enterprises. With communication channels to the relevant authorities blocked in many cases, more and more retirees are choosing to take their complaints to the street and staging public demonstrations. They are demanding that the government increase the pensions paid to state enterprise retirees and reduce the gap between their payments and those of other institutions.
However, the local governments have neither the financial resources nor the political motivation to solve this problem. Local governments are not only failing to give the retiree groups straightforward answers, they have also put down their demonstrations with force. Thus, the conflict between these pensioners and their local government is worsening. For the past two Saturdays, Chen Renjian, who is one of the workers' representatives leading the fight for an increase in pensioners' payment in Hangzhou, explained part of the problem to us. The monthly pension payments are sufficient to cover the family's food bill, but these seniors do not dare fall ill. Chen also said that a rising number of party members and cadres, previously employed in these state-owned enterprises and, afraid to join the workers' movement, are no longer fearful of coming out and participating in this fight. Chen also told about the retirees' peaceful group demonstrations in front of the municipal government building in October last year and in June of this year. Several of the representatives were restricted from taking part, and several others who did participate were badly beaten. Below is the last part of our discussion.
Chen: We sent a report to the Municipal Public Security Bureau, seeking fair treatment for those beaten up on 2 June. According to the law covering public demonstrations, they must reply to us within five days. After three days, they telephoned me and said I could come and pick it up.
Han: After three days, they told you to come and pick up something?
Chen: The authorities telephoned me and told me to come and pick it up. They said they had something for me, a piece of paper.
Han: Something with a written message?
Chen: That's right.
Han: What was the message?
Chen: The senior authority said that there would be a serious disruption of social order and the demonstration was not approved.
Han: It said a serious disruption of social order and therefore the demonstration was not approved?
Chen: Correct, correct.
Han: And what was your reaction in the end?
Chen: We said that they did not have sufficient reason for this.
Han: Did you file a complaint against them?
Chen: There's no place for us to complain. And it wouldn't do any good anyway.
Han: So what did you decide to do?
Chen: We decided not to go. We still want to continue to fight. We think their reasons were insufficient.
Han: You still want to fight?
Chen: We were going to fight before the 20th. A few of us were arrested on the 20th, and after that, with each going on his own volition, the group of us gathered there. (Editor's note: There was no protest leader)
Han: How many of you were arrested?
Chen: I was also arrested and held for nearly 24 hours.
Han: When were you arrested?
Chen: At 8 o'clock on the evening of the 19th.
Han: Why were you arrested?
Chen: They said that I was planning on disrupting social order.
Han: And that was because you (as a group) had applied for permission to hold the demonstration?
Chen: Yes!
Han: After you failed to get permission, did you hold the demonstration?
Chen: No. The authorities were afraid that on that day we would really have a demonstration, so they arrested us first.
Han: But you never actually had a street demonstration…
Chen: No, nothing.
Han: They were afraid that you would stage a street protest, so they arrested you first?
Chen: Yes. The protest was to be on the 20th, so they arrested me in the evening of the 19th.
Han: Did they carry out any legal procedures?
Chen: Yes, a summons was issued.
Han: Another summons.
Chen: This summons of theirs is like a magic weapon.
Han: You mean they can use it at any time to restrict the freedom of anyone they like?
Chen: They can lock you up for 24 hours.
Han: But it can't be longer than 24 hours.
Chen: No, not more than that. I was released with just three minutes to go. I was called to come in on the evening of the 19th and I was released on the 20th with just three minutes to go before 24 hours.
Han: How did they treat you during that period of nearly a full day?
Chen: They interrogated me quite often.
Han: What kinds of questions did they ask you?
Chen: They asked me how many of us there were and a lot of other nonsense.
Han: Did they keep notes of the interrogation?
Chen: They kept notes. I was not permitted to sleep for 24 hours, and we all sat on chairs throughout.
Han: They wouldn't let you sleep for 24 hours?
Chen: They take turns questioning you. They come in and ask a couple of questions every hour and then leave.
Han: So even if you wanted to sleep, you couldn't?
Chen: You can't sleep.
Han: Of the five people…
Chen: I was the only one that was locked up.
Han: What about the other people?
Chen: On the 20th, plain clothes officers were at the front door. This Public Security Bureau unit was already fixed on you and wouldn't let you walk out the door.
Han: They were already fixed on you on the first day?
Chen: They were already fixed on us on the evening of the 19th. On the morning of the 20th when you gathered together, they told you to get into the car and took you to the outskirts of Hangzhou to drink tea and wouldn't let you go to the designated spot.
Han: The other four were taken out to have a cup of tea, to run around?
Chen: Yes.
Han: You were the only one that was taken to the Public Security Bureau?
Chen: Yes.
Han: Did they present the other four with any kind of legal documents?
Chen: No, no legal procedures at all.
Han: So the police in the municipal public security bureau office took them out for a cup of tea?
Chen: They were all very polite and they treated them well.
Han: There were four of you that had your freedom restricted. You were taken in by the Public Security Bureau and what about the others, did they take any action to help you?
Chen: The other workers just called out some slogans.
Han: The other workers were gathered outside?
Chen: There were more than 1,000 in the park outside.
Han: Why were they gathering in the park outside?
Chen: The park was originally to be the starting point for our march.
Han: You were originally going to start your march from the park?
Chen: Yes.
Han: So everyone was still gathering in the park?
Chen: Correct.
Han: And they were chanting slogans there?
Chen: Correct
Han: What slogans were they chanting?
Chen: We want democracy. We want rule of law, those kinds of things.
Han: They didn't say that they wanted the authorities to release the workers' representatives?
Chen: I tell you at 4 pm on the afternoon of the 20th, quite a few of the workers' representatives came to my home and told my wife: "If they don't let Master Chen out, we will go down to the Public Security Bureau and tell them to let him go. In the end on the 20th when it got dark, my wife told them not to go. But several of them were angry and were preparing to go to the Public Security Bureau on the morning of the 21st at 8 am and tell them to release me. But in the end I came home on the evening of the 20th, so this action never got started.
Han: So the other workers, when they saw how the authorities were treating the workers' representatives, they didn't drop you or ignore your situation?
Chen: If they hadn't let me go, I estimate there would have been at least 1,000 people at the Public Security Bureau demanding that they let me go.
Han: So the Public Security Bureau knows how serious this problem is?
Chen: They probably heard something in the afternoon, so they let me go pretty quickly on the evening of the 20th.
Han: In the course of your struggle for the rights of retired workers, have you ever thought of going to the union?
Chen: The trade union is of no use.
Han: Have you ever tried the Hangzhou Municipal office of the All China Federation of Trade Unions (ACFTU) ?
Chen: We haven't. The Hangzhou Municipal office of the ACFTU has no authority. We are retired, retired. The union doesn't care about us. I know this. I did union work for more than 10 years.
Han: Does the union have any purpose or authority with those that are working?
Chen: No, none. Under the present system, we are under the city government. The trade union cannot say much. If they say too much, they will lose their jobs.
Han: The union doesn't dare to say too much?
Chen: In the past the union could do something, but now the union has no function.
Han: So it was the union of old that had a function?
Chen: In the past the union could do something.
Han: So the situation is like this: You have been fighting for an increase in the retirement pension and as of now, you haven't got anything. You have sent your petition nand set up a dialogue with the government. What will you do now?
Chen: We can only be patient and wait. We have different ways to carry out the next step, to present our demands to government and to talk to government.
Han: What kinds of methods would that be?
Chen: Basically, it would be the five of us sending in a petition.
Han: You would continue according to the requirements of the petition system.
Chen: Correct.
Han: Just those five people submitting a petition.
Chen: Correct, correct.
Han: Do you think this method will be affective?
Chen: It isn't effective, but we have no other way.
Han: If it isn't effective, why do you continue to use it?
Chen: There's nothing else we can do. We sent a petition once before. In (media) editorials and on the basis of moral principles, the people support us. We have at least won that bit. That is more than others.
Han: You can only raise awareness with editorials?
Chen: That's right. By encouraging discussion and editorials.
Han: Do you understand the relevant laws on the standards for raising retirement pensions?
Chen: We are in court asking for money.
Han: Do you understand the regulations in the law? Do you know if your retirement payment standards are in compliance with the laws and regulations?
Chen: There are no laws and regulations on this. We have thought of suing, but we have no money. In the end, we will still lose.
Han: But if you had money to sue, are there any laws and regulations which you can use? What do you all think?
Chen: There are laws that we can use, but we would not win the case.
Han: Why?
Chen: Our laws are not independent and our courts are controlled by the government and managed by government.
Han: Let us put that on one side for the minute. Isn't there any suitable law which can be used to support your demands?
Chen: No, none.
Han: There are no laws that you can use?
Chen: There are no laws that can support us.
Han: So you are just hoping that the government will raise your pension payments on moral grounds?
Chen: Yes, on moral grounds. We hope that the government will show some compassion. They have verbally acknowledged our difficulties. The government has admitted that we have difficulties. But does this mean that it will help us by raising the wages (payments)? They are not planning on it.
Han: So that means you can only carry on like this and try to raise awareness with the media?
Chen: Yes. That's right. We have no other way.
Han: Do you think that there will be a day, when, under the weight of all the pressure from the media, the government will raise your payments?
Chen: At a certain point, the government will want to see a stable society, so sometimes they might help us a little. But if we really want to solve this problem, it is not we here in Hangzhou that are going to do it. It's a national affair. Now this is a national problem. There are lots and lots of places around the country.
Han: I think this problem came up not too long ago in Hefei?
Chen: I know about Hefei. There were more than 10,000 people and in Nanjing also. I know that.
Han: Do you have any contact with the retirees in those places?
Chen: No, none.
Han: You are really struggling.
Chen: It doesn't matter.
Han: At any rate, your rights will come from your own struggle. Take care of yourself!
Chen: Thank you!
This is the last broadcast in this three-part series of talks with Chen Renjing, a worker's representative of retirees from Hangzhou. I would like to invite all workers to give me a call and to discuss how we can protect workers' rights in China.